It's so boring now to keep hearing everything is a CIA operation, or controlled opposition. Anymore, it's like if you don't agree with someone he has to be a CIA agent. With absolutely no proof I might add. Would be so fun and refreshing to have some calm discussions regarding the theories of a globe earth and a flat earth. It would also be so EASY for the globe believers, like NASA, to provide us with some REAL proof of a globe earth. So far it's not been done. Why? That is, to show us real time videos and photos from space showing a spinning marble ball. We'd all be so awed to see this proof. I mean real photos and videos, not CGI images. How hard can that be in this age of super technology. Come on, if President Nixon could talk to the moon landers on a landline (I watched that live), then surely today with all the stuff they send up into space, they could produce real time and even time-lapse movies of a spinning globe!
"everything the American public believes is false." EVERYTHING he stated.
The American "public" believes the earth is a globe. The American "public" believes viruses are real things that make us sick. The American "public" believes voting is a patriotic duty and each one's vote counts. Would be fun to see as copy of the "disinformation program."
Although we being mere mortals may sometimes fall prey to lies and deception regardless of our view of the shape of the earth, we can use or senses to guide us. I’ve been an airplane passenger several times. With my own eyes I saw how the earth below clearly is stretched out in a relatively flat plane for miles upon miles. The horizon is horizontal. Once you’ve ridden the friendly skies above you can make your own deductions about the shape of where we live below.
I have ZERO respect for that climate fear mongerer, so he's not my 'head priest.'
And yes, you see the curve CLEARLY - that's called a CIRCLE. That's not a flat plane, extending in all directiions. You're deliberately mixing terms.
He's saying you can't see the curve of the plane as it goes around the horizon (or something like that).
I am saying something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. If you stand on a boat and you turn in a circle, the horizon will be the same distance throughout your spin - it is a circle, otherwise the line would extend infinitely to either side. That would be called NOT CURVED.
If it goes around you completely, and if you can't understand this basic principle, I'm sorry, then it is CURVED into a CIRCULAR shape.
You can pretend both things are the same if you want, but they aren't.
Youre describing the circumference of the observers visible area, not curvature of the surface. Those aren't the same thing... A limited viewing radius on a perfectly flat plane also produces a circular horizon around the observer. The question is whether the surface or horizon demonstrably drops away perpendicular to that plane.
It would be a good thing to expose the ties of secret agencies to flat earth collectives. I know this is true but you can do a better job at showing some irrefutible connections.
Interesting how whenever the topic of the shape of the earth crops up it's usually framed as globe believers against flat earthers. Never about a genuine wish to find the truth. In the years I have spent researching this topic most evidence based on real world physics shows our world to be flat and moving in an upwards trajectory at a constant speed. We have a local sun and a local moon. All arguments to the contrary given by virtually all globe earth believers take on a hostile juvenile tone of superiority backed by zero proof of their arguments. A good starting point for truth and understanding of this topic can be found on the YouTube channel 'Beyond the imaginary curve'.
I think today mind control or neuromodulation technology is used to convince even more people that the earth is flat. I have tried to talk flat earthers out of this cult but with little success. It seems to be etched in their brain cells.
Interestingly... this cult is mostly in English speaking countries where most English Bibles, except for 2, have changed Isaiah 40:20 "globe" to 'circle' (falsely assuming circle means flat). But if you check other countries Bibles and languages... they all say "globe" in their language of course. The earth is a globe.
Also... Nowhere in the Bible does it call the earth flat. The earth is described as a "globe" in 95% of the Bibles worldwide. Here is one of the few 'English' Bibles that call the earth a "globe"...
Isaiah 40:22...
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition...
"It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in".
The rest of the Bibles WORLDWIDE in VARIOUS LANGUAGES also say "GLOBE"!!! 95% of them say the earth is a GLOBE!!!
Also, speaking of photos. Why is it always the same exact picture that is used by all the flat earth crowd to 'prove' the ice wall at Antarctica? And by same, I mean the exact same. And if this impassible ice wall exists, how the hell do penguins get on the land mass? And if people aren't allowed there, explain the ability to book a trip? Or all the research facilities there?
If NASA made up the globe model, explain how a book that I own a physical copy of, written in the late 1800s, by a Christian, that refers to the Earth as a globe. You clowns are the ones who falsely think everything and everyone is a CIA op and agent. And why are photos of the Earth digital composites (NOT CGI, but I wouldnt expect that difference to be understood)? Because the Earth is fucking huge and from where the photos are taken, it is impossible to get it all in one image. But, maybe I'm just a fucking spook.
I have yet to see any evidence that flat Earthers actually exist.
To qualify as a FE (ie someone who genuinely believes the Earth is flat) one must AT THE VERY LEAST reject the globe Earth model, and that includes rejecting all technologies and infrastructure that are derived from, and rely on, the globe Earth model. That includes google maps (and all conventional maps), international air travel and freight, all communications relying on satellites or undersea cables, GPS and cell phones etc.
I have yet to come across a self identifying FE who has actually given up any of these technologies or infrastructure. None of the 'big names' in FE that are mentioned in this post have. And so they cannot claim to have actually rejected the globe Earth model in their daily lives, and so they cannot claim (in good faith) to be a 'Flat Earther'.
To put it simply, if you claim there are no mountains on Earth you must give up your annual skiing trips to the Swiss Alps. If you claim there are no oceans on Earth you must cancel your 3 week cruise vacation. And if you claim the Earth is flat (or any shape other than the current globe one that our entire modern civilisation is founded on) you must give up all the activities and technologies that rely on globe Earth measurements.
Anyone claiming the Earth is flat who still flies internationally or uses google maps or GPS or owns a cell phone is a fraud. They are no different to someone who claims they communicate via telepathy, but get caught using a cellphone. The only difference is that FE's openly use international air travel, GPS, google maps etc. They don't even try to hide it.
The accepted distances between all the different cities on planet Earth only fit a globe Earth model. If the Earth is not a globe then all those distances are incorrect. The further you travel (such as internationally, or between continents) the more inaccurate those distances must be. Long haul plane flights should fall out the sky due to running out of fuel (or get hopelessly lost, or land 4 hours early with half a tank of fuel left) IF the planet is not a globe and we've got it all wrong. But they don't. The globe Earth model works perfectly. All distances on a globe Earth match our experiences when travelling by land, air or sea.
But when arriving at a conference to speak these self identifying FE's do not claim to have travelled a different distance from their country of origin than the conventionally accepted globe Earth distance. Nor do they claim to have travelled by their own personal transport (ship, horse, dragon whatever). They openly admit to using international air travel and the network of flight routes and navigation which is derived from, and relies on, the standard globe Earth model. This fact alone makes them total frauds right from the get go.
IDENTIFYING as something is not the same as BEING something. If you're going to identify as a 'man' or a 'woman' at least make the effort to behave accordingly, even if you cannot pass. FE's don't even make the most basic effort to conform to their self proclaimed identity. Yet they demand we accept that they really are FE's. I don't accept their identity for a minute. And this is actually the most compassionate thing to do. If they want to be FE's they must give up modern technology and live completely off grid. Or only use airlines and shipping companies who deviate from the standard globe Earth dimensions and distances.
Many self identifying FE's would desist from their FE identity if we made such basic demands of them. And this would be good for them. BY humouring them (giving them extra special treatment at conferences or in podcasts and interviews and accepting their gaslighting) we are actually insulting them.
FE's are literally mocking the very concepts of 'science' and 'scientific theory'. They are mocking language itself. FE is to science what goth makeup is to vampirism. It is the most superficial veneer imaginable. It is pure fashion and identity. Pure narcissism. Of course goths do not (generally) claim to actually BE vampires. They just enjoy the look (which is fine). But FE's do claim to actually believe the Earth is flat. For real. That is what makes them socially divisive and a destructive influence on society.
Demanding everyone else in society recognise and pander to your own contradictory identity and behaviour is the ultimate in anti social behaviour. It is cultural vandalism. FE's are in the same category as any other narcissistic, entitled, disruptive progressive feminist or SJW.
And on top of that they waste everyone's time debating this crap for hours and hours when we could be figuring out practical solutions to actually make the world a better place.
Inviting these clowns to speak at supposedly serious convention, events or podcasts is like inviting a woman with a carrot stuck on her nose who self-identifies as a witch so she can give a lecture on witchcraft. Or to debate the validity of witchcraft with a non believer.
I'm not suggesting FE's should be 'banned', but at least someone should grill them on their ridiculous identity and ask them why they still use globe earth maps, air transport, GPS and other technologies. At least call out their hypocrisy and use them as a valuable teaching aid to show the audience what gaslighting looks like.
A theory is more than an 'identity'.
In order to promote a FE THEORY you must have a theoretical model. The theoretical model needs to be predictive so that it can be compared to nature (objective reality) and be either confirmed as valid (conforms to nature) or falsified as invalid (does not conform to nature).
In the case of FE, this means some kind of a FE map of the world with an actual scale on it. The scale is what turns a 'picture' into a map. That is the bare minimum FE's need to provide us with in order to turn their 'identity' (their 'makeup') into a theory.
Not one single self identifying FE has ever produced such a map. The various pictures of a disc with distorted countries drawn onto it do not qualify as maps because they have no scale. They have no scale for a reason. If you put a scale on it the whole thing falls apart. If the scale fits the known distances between London and Paris or LA to NYC then the distances between Sydney and Johannesburg or Cape Town to London suddenly become 3 times longer than the conventionally accepted distances we all use currently. This means long haul flights should take twice as long to get there, or drop out of the skies after running out of fuel.
Until FE's can produce a workable FE map with distances and a scale on it, they don't even have a theory. All they have is gaslighting.
Injecting this gaslighting into the 'alternative' and 'truther' communities serves to divide them and weaken them, and it also allows the mainstream to dismiss the whole thing as a bunch of clowns with zero intelligence or grip on reality. And to be fair, that is an accurate label to apply to anyone taking FE seriously.
FE grew as an online phenomenon in the run up to the 50th anniversary of the alleged Apollo moon landings. For anyone paying attention at the time it was clearly a psyop to discredit skeptics of Apollo by planting a giant turd into the punchbowl in the form of FE nonsense.
It is commons now for skeptics of Apollo (and now other topics such as virology and germ theory) to be hand waved away as 'crazy flat Earthers'. This makes it easy to shut down any conversation or debate, which stops any legitimate criticism from leaking into the mainstream social discourse. It also serves to deter 'normies' from being critical of these topics, for fear of being labelled 'one of those flat Earthers'.
So, all in all, self identifying FE's are doing a great job propping up the mainstream system they claim to be so keen to dismantle.
Prolix. Bottom line is that noone (including pilots) has shown the Earth's curvature. If you agree with the globe's circumference, your line of sight should be "dropping" over long distances and yet, on a clear day, you can see from the Pyrenees to the Alps hundreds of miles away which makes no sense. The most interesting thing about this "debate" is that neither side has provided inconvertible proof which makes one wonder if they're not both wrong or that it is simply a question of differing perceptions 🤔
What I gained from my own FE research is that I don't trust anything that I haven't verified with my own eyes in person myself. I do not believe anything with all my heart that I see or read on the Internet or on any news media outlet. NASA lies.
Of course NASA lies. But here's the logical fallacy - if NASA lies about something, or even about most things, it doesn't follow it lies about everything. Besides, why does NASA even need to lie about the shape of the planet? Virtually everything they do can be alleged against the flat earth model. Nothing stops them from building rockets to fly and see what this thing we call the Moon is. Nothing stops them building crafts to go up and examine the firmament or to fly to those tiny specs of light scattered over it which we call stars. There's no reason for NASA to come up with this crazy globe Earth model in order to do anything. The whole NASA argument is nonsensical from the get go.
And then there's reality. Anyone with functioning brain can see the fallacies upon which the FE model rests. It's a model which doesn't explain anything and botches every single explanation of empirical physics with cartoonish, almost laughable arguments.
People claiming to BUHLEEVE in a flat Earth should not be trusted, either, and so I don’t trust them. Few people are actually dumb enough to BUHLEEVE it, so most of those claiming it are just lying for a paycheck.
Thanks for writing this, it's refreshing. It's frustrating navigating who to trust in the freedom space. Hard to tell if some of the FE believers are controlled opp or just believers. It would suck if Andrew Kauffman and the Spacebusters guy are part of the bad guys. And Beth Martens, as I have enjoyed her podcast.
Hi Tain, I don't think that every person who supports flat earth is controlled opposition.. Some have just been tricked into the position BUT... Everyone associated with Jeff Berwick and the Anarchapulco conference are, unfortunately, tarred by their association.. I know some folks speak for the free Mexican vacation and to reach the audience but I have a feeling the honest ones are rethinking after the cartoonish anti-semitism... BTW, thanks again for going paid!
Heck yeah you're welcome. Yes I agree. It's such a deep and brilliant psyop seemingly. The main sources for information about the human condition that I look for are from your foundation, as well as Mark Passio(who has a video that names the flat earth psyop ), Jason Christoff, myself 😁 and a few others. I used to watch the Berwick videos for some news but would cringe when he spoke about what you're referring to. I thought I was missing out on never going to anarchapulco but recently I realized I don't want to go. Would love to make it for Porcfest.
I really don't think anyone needs to pay anyone to spread an infectious psyop. All they need to do is seed the information space with the content they want to spread. Nothing is more convincing than the confident true believer.
They have the hardware and the software resources. They definitely have ways to control the algorithms. These are obviously fixed to boost particular sorts of information and suppress others. These things can be adjusted to take advantage of trends and consensus reality.
Sure eventually some with a massive following become tools. Although, why pay them as employees when the vast majority are voluntary useful idiots.
So many people are more than willing to believe in all most anything as long as it affirms their cognitive biases. They happily believe without logical reasoning or rational thinking. They become willing vectors for spreading mind numbing pathogenic thought.
All a social engineering agent needs to do is feed them the information they want to spread. Then support them from the background and boost their confidence with encouragement.
These folks convince themselves without a shread of actual evidence. They don't need to pay them they simply need to feed their confirmation bias.
There are some pretty good people taken up with the possibility of the earth being flat, and who knows? Maybe it is flat for them, because we do create our own realities (though to what extent I'm not 100% sure!🙃) Anyway, I'm of the opinion that the earth is a sphere, though my thinking isn't backed up by physics (that's too much for my brain). I like the simple test proposed for seeing the sun set a couple of times! And that the flat earth promotion is an CIA psy-op makes far more sense than a flat earth.
Try this thought experiment. If the Earth is flat, and the Sun is always above it, then there's no point in time when you won't have a line of sight to it. This is no mystery or some complicated rocket science. It's simple 3D geometry which you can demonstrate with a table and an apple hovering above it. The apple will be visible to any small creature crawling on the table and, as long as it remains above it, will never ever disappear from sight, no matter how far away it is from the table.
So where the heck does the brightest object we know of, go at night? It doesn't matter how far it goes, if it is always above us, we should be able to see it with binoculars or powerful telescopes. Yet, there's not a single recorded instance in the entire historical record when someone observed the Sun at night. None.
You don't need NASA, schools, physics, science or any authority ... all you need is a thinking brain. And if you apply simple trigonometry against the FE proposed distances to the Sun, this argument becomes even more absurd. FE people basically fall into 2 camps: the frauds and the gullible.
This exemplifies a lack of understanding of optics and vanishing point. In the FE model the sun is local and much smaller, so it can vanish from sight with enough distance.
LOL... Nothing can vanish from sight if you continue to have a line of sight to it (i.e. if it is not obstructed by something else). It doesn't matter how far it is.
And you're talking about optics and vanishing point... 🤦♂️ That's what happens when the only understanding of the world you've got is from a computer screen.
I don't think anything about how smart I am. That's rather pointless exercise. But I do think about the observable reality and how it reveals the shape of the planet we live in. I suggest you do the same instead of comparing your smarts to random online characters.
Etienne I think you're articles are awesome but this one, hmm. For starters the only reason you gave that we should believe in a spherical earth is that people with scientific minds and know how to do math, believe the earth is a spinning ball in space. That's not a good enough reason to believe them in my view. And the elevator example, well as you get higher, you can see further so that doesn't really prove anything if the sun is moving further away. Your argument is much like science's flawed method of "peer review" that if lots of scientists believe something then who are we to argue. It hasn't been proven that the earth is going around the sun. By the way, Kepler poisoned Tychos Brahe who had a different model, of the sun going around the earth, and that two planets are actually moons of the sun. The other planets do go around the sun, but the sun goes around the earth and the earth moves but only one mile per hour. And science as far as I know, doesn't say what the sun is doing in their model. Is it just sitting there, motionless? Because that would be funny as nothing is motionless, however that may not be what they are saying, but I've never heard anything about what the sun is doing out of the mouths of heliocentric model scientists.
I think you're onto something though with the CIA fueling confusion, however it's ok, we're allowed to disagree and it's good for us to. But we need to have more evidence than just saying scientists say so therefore, it is so. What makes the CIA ploy successful is when we degrade each other for having different opinions.
You wrote this, and you didn't even catch your own presumption. Now, think about it - why would the above statement be true? There's no reason at all, geometrical or otherwise, that you should be able to see further away as you go higher on a flat earth. But make the earth a sphere and suddenly you can see exactly why the above statement holds true.
Lol! Use your fucking head! It's flat, everything you've been told is a lie. Ev-ry-thing-g-ah! The people who run this world are inbred, gay, child eating retards!
FE has never interested me too much, but i do wonder why objects can be seen at extreme distancies when Earth's curvature should prevent this, how objects can remain attached to the earth when it is allegedly spinning so fast and also why NASA has lied to us concerning the moon landing.... those who 'are science' have muddied the term to the extent there is doubt about everything.
Before commenting on a subject like flat earth, please do the appropriate research so you don’t sound like every other ignoramus who talks out of school. I’m not surprised and I’m starting to think Etienne is controlled opposition
No, it’s not about agreeing to disagree. NO NO NO…I bought your book and thumb drives and appreciate the work your have done but when you said that you can’t believe you are debating people who believe the earth is a disc floating in space, you exposed yourself as someone who speaks about subjects they know nothing about. It’s extremely disappointing because I can actually prove with a camera or binoculars that boats don’t sail away over a “horizon”. ITS LITERALLY THAT EASY TO DISPROVE the 8 1/2 inches per mile squared curvature that “mainstream science” has brainwashed you to believe. How can you prove the earth is perfectly spherical? It’s amazing to see people who distrust mainstream science…..but totally trust the pseudoscientific lies of astronomy. Neil DeGrasse Tyson says the earth is shaped like a pear….so which is it?? A pear or a ball?
1. If the earth is rotating east to west (1000 mph at the equator) how is possible that there’s no difference flying east, west, north or south (except for a tailwind jet stream)?!!If you are flying into the rotation , (1000 mph + 500mph plane speed) it should take a fraction of the time than it would flying with the rotation. Imagine the insane wind a 1000 mph rotation would generate!! Also, if a plane is flying 500mph, you could only travel in the opposite direction of the rotation and never with it because the ground is moving faster than the plane!! Your destination would be drifting further and further away from you. 😂
2. If a helicopter hovers in mid air (not moving in any direction) for 2 hours , did the earth rotate 2000 miles beneath the helicopter?? Shouldn’t it have landed 2k miles away from its starting point because of the earth’s rotation? Guess what, THAT NEVER HAPPENS because the earth is stationary.
3. Ask a pilot (next time you take a long flight) if the airports and cities are moving and shifting beneath you (with the rotation) while the plane is in flight. Do we experience musical airports like musical chairs?? What if a runway is positioned north to south and perpendicular to your heading?? How can you land an airplane on a runway that is moving 1000 east to west??? Air travel would be very different if the earth was actually rotating and it’s incredibly silly to think otherwise.
Yahweh did not stutter when he wrote the Bible and created the world and made it flat. He warned us of demons like you with your science trying to disprove his Truth.
Actually, I think NASA is behind the Flat Earth psyop, qui bono? Though it certainly benefits many of the agencies, so probably some inter-agency psychological situation board with occult-oriented psychologists. It's brilliant how it traps minds.
I've wondered if it hasn't been a testing ground for techniques utilized in the C19 scamdemic. Having engaged with many of the FE'ers over the years, along with a geodetic surveyor mate, attempting to get them to cognize a wider range of data to assess their world view upon, I ended up looking into the psychology of cult programming. Neurologist Robert Burton's work on how people believe they are right even when they are obviously wrong is a fascinating path.
There may be no more hope for them than people waving Ukranian flags these days.
Michael Nehls book The Indoctrinated Brain is also a good read in discerning how these psyops can function.
I engaged with Darrell Fox and many others in that field back in the day. It was a shitshow.
My friend Jesse Kozlowski, a geodetic surveyor with over 40 years experience in measuring the curvature on large scale projects made a series of videos showing how the curvature works, and how the FEers do the 8" squared per mile wrong (it's one of the mind tricks that traps them) as it's for sighting line perpedicular to a plumb line at sighting location, readily seen as divergent from line of sight in theodolites. He came under heavy attack in the forums, he told me they were posting pictures of him from his younger days that he didn't even know existed, would have been scanned from old film prints, along with a wanted poster, etc.
Eric "Dubious" Dubay got his start with a $100,000 reward from the US Vaccine court, for not feeling well after a flu shot. He used that to move to Thailand, many more connecting details, but that should give you a major clue. How many parents with vaccine injured children have gotten paid out like that?
Won't belabor the issue, but I've done a deep dive on all aspects over the years, and there's no doubt this is a high level psychological operation.
I have a few mates who will believe it no matter what info is given them, but they are wise and don't discuss that with me.
I agree that FE benefits NASA . . . it serves to discredit anyone who points out problems and inconsistencies with the narrative surrounding the Apollo missions. Thus anyone questioning the Apollo missions is lumped in with flat earthers and easily dismissed.
Why is the argument always ball and flat? What if the answer is something entirely different? It's always duality with monos which is ironic being a twin but I guess that's why the pattern is so obvious to us. Left - Right, Man-Woman, Black-White, Mind-Body, Nature-Nurture, Birth-Death, Good-Evil, and the list can go on and on … Why can't you think in terms of polarity, your world might open up a lot more.
It's so boring now to keep hearing everything is a CIA operation, or controlled opposition. Anymore, it's like if you don't agree with someone he has to be a CIA agent. With absolutely no proof I might add. Would be so fun and refreshing to have some calm discussions regarding the theories of a globe earth and a flat earth. It would also be so EASY for the globe believers, like NASA, to provide us with some REAL proof of a globe earth. So far it's not been done. Why? That is, to show us real time videos and photos from space showing a spinning marble ball. We'd all be so awed to see this proof. I mean real photos and videos, not CGI images. How hard can that be in this age of super technology. Come on, if President Nixon could talk to the moon landers on a landline (I watched that live), then surely today with all the stuff they send up into space, they could produce real time and even time-lapse movies of a spinning globe!
Hi Donna,
My favorite CIA quote of all time is:
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William J. Casey, CIA Director (1981)
"everything the American public believes is false." EVERYTHING he stated.
The American "public" believes the earth is a globe. The American "public" believes viruses are real things that make us sick. The American "public" believes voting is a patriotic duty and each one's vote counts. Would be fun to see as copy of the "disinformation program."
Although we being mere mortals may sometimes fall prey to lies and deception regardless of our view of the shape of the earth, we can use or senses to guide us. I’ve been an airplane passenger several times. With my own eyes I saw how the earth below clearly is stretched out in a relatively flat plane for miles upon miles. The horizon is horizontal. Once you’ve ridden the friendly skies above you can make your own deductions about the shape of where we live below.
WHen I stand on the beach, I see a curved horizon, not a straight line.
Interesting, because scientists claim you cant see the curvature from 130k+ foot altitude.
Heres your head priest making this claim
https://www.facebook.com/reel/2511846639265092/?referral_source=external_link&surface_type=tab&in_reels_tab_context=TRUE
I have ZERO respect for that climate fear mongerer, so he's not my 'head priest.'
And yes, you see the curve CLEARLY - that's called a CIRCLE. That's not a flat plane, extending in all directiions. You're deliberately mixing terms.
He's saying you can't see the curve of the plane as it goes around the horizon (or something like that).
I am saying something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. If you stand on a boat and you turn in a circle, the horizon will be the same distance throughout your spin - it is a circle, otherwise the line would extend infinitely to either side. That would be called NOT CURVED.
If it goes around you completely, and if you can't understand this basic principle, I'm sorry, then it is CURVED into a CIRCULAR shape.
You can pretend both things are the same if you want, but they aren't.
Youre describing the circumference of the observers visible area, not curvature of the surface. Those aren't the same thing... A limited viewing radius on a perfectly flat plane also produces a circular horizon around the observer. The question is whether the surface or horizon demonstrably drops away perpendicular to that plane.
It doesnt.
It would be a good thing to expose the ties of secret agencies to flat earth collectives. I know this is true but you can do a better job at showing some irrefutible connections.
you may enjoy this?-https://substack.com/@theblueskymaiden1/p-171189041
Interesting how whenever the topic of the shape of the earth crops up it's usually framed as globe believers against flat earthers. Never about a genuine wish to find the truth. In the years I have spent researching this topic most evidence based on real world physics shows our world to be flat and moving in an upwards trajectory at a constant speed. We have a local sun and a local moon. All arguments to the contrary given by virtually all globe earth believers take on a hostile juvenile tone of superiority backed by zero proof of their arguments. A good starting point for truth and understanding of this topic can be found on the YouTube channel 'Beyond the imaginary curve'.
I think today mind control or neuromodulation technology is used to convince even more people that the earth is flat. I have tried to talk flat earthers out of this cult but with little success. It seems to be etched in their brain cells.
Interestingly... this cult is mostly in English speaking countries where most English Bibles, except for 2, have changed Isaiah 40:20 "globe" to 'circle' (falsely assuming circle means flat). But if you check other countries Bibles and languages... they all say "globe" in their language of course. The earth is a globe.
Also... Nowhere in the Bible does it call the earth flat. The earth is described as a "globe" in 95% of the Bibles worldwide. Here is one of the few 'English' Bibles that call the earth a "globe"...
Isaiah 40:22...
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition...
"It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in".
The rest of the Bibles WORLDWIDE in VARIOUS LANGUAGES also say "GLOBE"!!! 95% of them say the earth is a GLOBE!!!
GLOBE IS THE WINNER!
Donna thank you I'm with you 💯
It's the curved water hanging onto a ball, while spinning at a thousand miles an hour that convinced me 🙄 Who says water needs a container?
“Pour me a drink barkeep! And hold the glass.”
Also, speaking of photos. Why is it always the same exact picture that is used by all the flat earth crowd to 'prove' the ice wall at Antarctica? And by same, I mean the exact same. And if this impassible ice wall exists, how the hell do penguins get on the land mass? And if people aren't allowed there, explain the ability to book a trip? Or all the research facilities there?
If NASA made up the globe model, explain how a book that I own a physical copy of, written in the late 1800s, by a Christian, that refers to the Earth as a globe. You clowns are the ones who falsely think everything and everyone is a CIA op and agent. And why are photos of the Earth digital composites (NOT CGI, but I wouldnt expect that difference to be understood)? Because the Earth is fucking huge and from where the photos are taken, it is impossible to get it all in one image. But, maybe I'm just a fucking spook.
It's so easy though.
The earth seems to be a globe according to easily self-verifiable experiments one can do. Also the math checks out.
FE is pushed by the faglords to spread dissent anong the truther ranks. They make us infight about obvious bullshit.
So yes, both these things can be true at the same time:
1. We live on a globe
2. NASA are lying shitbags who faked the moons landing as well as the recent fly-by
They dont make such footage die to all the unexplained phenomena going on. Everything is half truth.
I have yet to see any evidence that flat Earthers actually exist.
To qualify as a FE (ie someone who genuinely believes the Earth is flat) one must AT THE VERY LEAST reject the globe Earth model, and that includes rejecting all technologies and infrastructure that are derived from, and rely on, the globe Earth model. That includes google maps (and all conventional maps), international air travel and freight, all communications relying on satellites or undersea cables, GPS and cell phones etc.
I have yet to come across a self identifying FE who has actually given up any of these technologies or infrastructure. None of the 'big names' in FE that are mentioned in this post have. And so they cannot claim to have actually rejected the globe Earth model in their daily lives, and so they cannot claim (in good faith) to be a 'Flat Earther'.
To put it simply, if you claim there are no mountains on Earth you must give up your annual skiing trips to the Swiss Alps. If you claim there are no oceans on Earth you must cancel your 3 week cruise vacation. And if you claim the Earth is flat (or any shape other than the current globe one that our entire modern civilisation is founded on) you must give up all the activities and technologies that rely on globe Earth measurements.
Anyone claiming the Earth is flat who still flies internationally or uses google maps or GPS or owns a cell phone is a fraud. They are no different to someone who claims they communicate via telepathy, but get caught using a cellphone. The only difference is that FE's openly use international air travel, GPS, google maps etc. They don't even try to hide it.
The accepted distances between all the different cities on planet Earth only fit a globe Earth model. If the Earth is not a globe then all those distances are incorrect. The further you travel (such as internationally, or between continents) the more inaccurate those distances must be. Long haul plane flights should fall out the sky due to running out of fuel (or get hopelessly lost, or land 4 hours early with half a tank of fuel left) IF the planet is not a globe and we've got it all wrong. But they don't. The globe Earth model works perfectly. All distances on a globe Earth match our experiences when travelling by land, air or sea.
But when arriving at a conference to speak these self identifying FE's do not claim to have travelled a different distance from their country of origin than the conventionally accepted globe Earth distance. Nor do they claim to have travelled by their own personal transport (ship, horse, dragon whatever). They openly admit to using international air travel and the network of flight routes and navigation which is derived from, and relies on, the standard globe Earth model. This fact alone makes them total frauds right from the get go.
IDENTIFYING as something is not the same as BEING something. If you're going to identify as a 'man' or a 'woman' at least make the effort to behave accordingly, even if you cannot pass. FE's don't even make the most basic effort to conform to their self proclaimed identity. Yet they demand we accept that they really are FE's. I don't accept their identity for a minute. And this is actually the most compassionate thing to do. If they want to be FE's they must give up modern technology and live completely off grid. Or only use airlines and shipping companies who deviate from the standard globe Earth dimensions and distances.
Many self identifying FE's would desist from their FE identity if we made such basic demands of them. And this would be good for them. BY humouring them (giving them extra special treatment at conferences or in podcasts and interviews and accepting their gaslighting) we are actually insulting them.
FE's are literally mocking the very concepts of 'science' and 'scientific theory'. They are mocking language itself. FE is to science what goth makeup is to vampirism. It is the most superficial veneer imaginable. It is pure fashion and identity. Pure narcissism. Of course goths do not (generally) claim to actually BE vampires. They just enjoy the look (which is fine). But FE's do claim to actually believe the Earth is flat. For real. That is what makes them socially divisive and a destructive influence on society.
Demanding everyone else in society recognise and pander to your own contradictory identity and behaviour is the ultimate in anti social behaviour. It is cultural vandalism. FE's are in the same category as any other narcissistic, entitled, disruptive progressive feminist or SJW.
And on top of that they waste everyone's time debating this crap for hours and hours when we could be figuring out practical solutions to actually make the world a better place.
Inviting these clowns to speak at supposedly serious convention, events or podcasts is like inviting a woman with a carrot stuck on her nose who self-identifies as a witch so she can give a lecture on witchcraft. Or to debate the validity of witchcraft with a non believer.
I'm not suggesting FE's should be 'banned', but at least someone should grill them on their ridiculous identity and ask them why they still use globe earth maps, air transport, GPS and other technologies. At least call out their hypocrisy and use them as a valuable teaching aid to show the audience what gaslighting looks like.
A theory is more than an 'identity'.
In order to promote a FE THEORY you must have a theoretical model. The theoretical model needs to be predictive so that it can be compared to nature (objective reality) and be either confirmed as valid (conforms to nature) or falsified as invalid (does not conform to nature).
In the case of FE, this means some kind of a FE map of the world with an actual scale on it. The scale is what turns a 'picture' into a map. That is the bare minimum FE's need to provide us with in order to turn their 'identity' (their 'makeup') into a theory.
Not one single self identifying FE has ever produced such a map. The various pictures of a disc with distorted countries drawn onto it do not qualify as maps because they have no scale. They have no scale for a reason. If you put a scale on it the whole thing falls apart. If the scale fits the known distances between London and Paris or LA to NYC then the distances between Sydney and Johannesburg or Cape Town to London suddenly become 3 times longer than the conventionally accepted distances we all use currently. This means long haul flights should take twice as long to get there, or drop out of the skies after running out of fuel.
Until FE's can produce a workable FE map with distances and a scale on it, they don't even have a theory. All they have is gaslighting.
Injecting this gaslighting into the 'alternative' and 'truther' communities serves to divide them and weaken them, and it also allows the mainstream to dismiss the whole thing as a bunch of clowns with zero intelligence or grip on reality. And to be fair, that is an accurate label to apply to anyone taking FE seriously.
FE grew as an online phenomenon in the run up to the 50th anniversary of the alleged Apollo moon landings. For anyone paying attention at the time it was clearly a psyop to discredit skeptics of Apollo by planting a giant turd into the punchbowl in the form of FE nonsense.
It is commons now for skeptics of Apollo (and now other topics such as virology and germ theory) to be hand waved away as 'crazy flat Earthers'. This makes it easy to shut down any conversation or debate, which stops any legitimate criticism from leaking into the mainstream social discourse. It also serves to deter 'normies' from being critical of these topics, for fear of being labelled 'one of those flat Earthers'.
So, all in all, self identifying FE's are doing a great job propping up the mainstream system they claim to be so keen to dismantle.
https://rumble.com/v3x9jag-what-every-critic-of-flat-earth-theory-gets-wrong..html
Prolix. Bottom line is that noone (including pilots) has shown the Earth's curvature. If you agree with the globe's circumference, your line of sight should be "dropping" over long distances and yet, on a clear day, you can see from the Pyrenees to the Alps hundreds of miles away which makes no sense. The most interesting thing about this "debate" is that neither side has provided inconvertible proof which makes one wonder if they're not both wrong or that it is simply a question of differing perceptions 🤔
You should actually read the articles you flutter about on then- otherwise you’ll appear an Utopian cretin, not just a fool?
https://substack.com/@theblueskymaiden1/p-171189041
I can honestly say I have no clue what you're on about.
Is that because you have a rotting brain like Miris?
go far our on the ocean. look at the horizon. hold a yardstick horizontally with the horizon.
now account for the evident curvature.
its plain to see, if you actually bother to look.
You can do this on a beach, even. You don't need to be on the ocean.
I've tried to explain this to people and they have a hard time seeing the evident curvature. It's kind of weird.
yeah, i thought about the beach… after i wrote… but yes…. their resistance to the obvious is strange.
I think it's the equidistance of the horizon from the eye and people can't disassociate the 2 aspects - equidistance and linearity are NOT the same.
Does that track?
Your comment is quite bizarre but I couldn't hold the yardstick horizontal because of the swell
well, its your loss for not choosing a calmer day.
the Earth ain’t flat, brother…..
Great commentary.
What I gained from my own FE research is that I don't trust anything that I haven't verified with my own eyes in person myself. I do not believe anything with all my heart that I see or read on the Internet or on any news media outlet. NASA lies.
And in that also lies the problem.
Maybe you don’t grasp that.
Of course NASA lies. But here's the logical fallacy - if NASA lies about something, or even about most things, it doesn't follow it lies about everything. Besides, why does NASA even need to lie about the shape of the planet? Virtually everything they do can be alleged against the flat earth model. Nothing stops them from building rockets to fly and see what this thing we call the Moon is. Nothing stops them building crafts to go up and examine the firmament or to fly to those tiny specs of light scattered over it which we call stars. There's no reason for NASA to come up with this crazy globe Earth model in order to do anything. The whole NASA argument is nonsensical from the get go.
And then there's reality. Anyone with functioning brain can see the fallacies upon which the FE model rests. It's a model which doesn't explain anything and botches every single explanation of empirical physics with cartoonish, almost laughable arguments.
NASA is a religious cult. They simply took the biblical model of the earth and inversed it. You can see the satanic inversion in many things.
Not that I needed any more confirmation, but thanks to this shill I definitely won’t be ingesting any chlorine dioxide in my lifetime!
But it follows that they should not be trusted and so I don't trust them.
People claiming to BUHLEEVE in a flat Earth should not be trusted, either, and so I don’t trust them. Few people are actually dumb enough to BUHLEEVE it, so most of those claiming it are just lying for a paycheck.
OK. But what does this have to do with the shape of the Earth? Did you really get your knowledge about it from NASA? Or from school, for that matter?
Thanks for writing this, it's refreshing. It's frustrating navigating who to trust in the freedom space. Hard to tell if some of the FE believers are controlled opp or just believers. It would suck if Andrew Kauffman and the Spacebusters guy are part of the bad guys. And Beth Martens, as I have enjoyed her podcast.
Hi Tain, I don't think that every person who supports flat earth is controlled opposition.. Some have just been tricked into the position BUT... Everyone associated with Jeff Berwick and the Anarchapulco conference are, unfortunately, tarred by their association.. I know some folks speak for the free Mexican vacation and to reach the audience but I have a feeling the honest ones are rethinking after the cartoonish anti-semitism... BTW, thanks again for going paid!
Heck yeah you're welcome. Yes I agree. It's such a deep and brilliant psyop seemingly. The main sources for information about the human condition that I look for are from your foundation, as well as Mark Passio(who has a video that names the flat earth psyop ), Jason Christoff, myself 😁 and a few others. I used to watch the Berwick videos for some news but would cringe when he spoke about what you're referring to. I thought I was missing out on never going to anarchapulco but recently I realized I don't want to go. Would love to make it for Porcfest.
99% of flatheads are shills. It’s such a retarded premise that it can only dupe the truly mentally deficient.
I really don't think anyone needs to pay anyone to spread an infectious psyop. All they need to do is seed the information space with the content they want to spread. Nothing is more convincing than the confident true believer.
They have the hardware and the software resources. They definitely have ways to control the algorithms. These are obviously fixed to boost particular sorts of information and suppress others. These things can be adjusted to take advantage of trends and consensus reality.
Sure eventually some with a massive following become tools. Although, why pay them as employees when the vast majority are voluntary useful idiots.
So many people are more than willing to believe in all most anything as long as it affirms their cognitive biases. They happily believe without logical reasoning or rational thinking. They become willing vectors for spreading mind numbing pathogenic thought.
All a social engineering agent needs to do is feed them the information they want to spread. Then support them from the background and boost their confidence with encouragement.
These folks convince themselves without a shread of actual evidence. They don't need to pay them they simply need to feed their confirmation bias.
There are some pretty good people taken up with the possibility of the earth being flat, and who knows? Maybe it is flat for them, because we do create our own realities (though to what extent I'm not 100% sure!🙃) Anyway, I'm of the opinion that the earth is a sphere, though my thinking isn't backed up by physics (that's too much for my brain). I like the simple test proposed for seeing the sun set a couple of times! And that the flat earth promotion is an CIA psy-op makes far more sense than a flat earth.
Try this thought experiment. If the Earth is flat, and the Sun is always above it, then there's no point in time when you won't have a line of sight to it. This is no mystery or some complicated rocket science. It's simple 3D geometry which you can demonstrate with a table and an apple hovering above it. The apple will be visible to any small creature crawling on the table and, as long as it remains above it, will never ever disappear from sight, no matter how far away it is from the table.
So where the heck does the brightest object we know of, go at night? It doesn't matter how far it goes, if it is always above us, we should be able to see it with binoculars or powerful telescopes. Yet, there's not a single recorded instance in the entire historical record when someone observed the Sun at night. None.
You don't need NASA, schools, physics, science or any authority ... all you need is a thinking brain. And if you apply simple trigonometry against the FE proposed distances to the Sun, this argument becomes even more absurd. FE people basically fall into 2 camps: the frauds and the gullible.
This exemplifies a lack of understanding of optics and vanishing point. In the FE model the sun is local and much smaller, so it can vanish from sight with enough distance.
LOL... Nothing can vanish from sight if you continue to have a line of sight to it (i.e. if it is not obstructed by something else). It doesn't matter how far it is.
And you're talking about optics and vanishing point... 🤦♂️ That's what happens when the only understanding of the world you've got is from a computer screen.
You’re not as smart as you think you are. Continue in your delusion
I don't think anything about how smart I am. That's rather pointless exercise. But I do think about the observable reality and how it reveals the shape of the planet we live in. I suggest you do the same instead of comparing your smarts to random online characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ5l9aE73mk
technically, Earth is not a true sphere - it is an oblate spheroid because it bulges slightly at the equator from millenia of rotational momentum.
If you want to be a nerd about it.
Etienne I think you're articles are awesome but this one, hmm. For starters the only reason you gave that we should believe in a spherical earth is that people with scientific minds and know how to do math, believe the earth is a spinning ball in space. That's not a good enough reason to believe them in my view. And the elevator example, well as you get higher, you can see further so that doesn't really prove anything if the sun is moving further away. Your argument is much like science's flawed method of "peer review" that if lots of scientists believe something then who are we to argue. It hasn't been proven that the earth is going around the sun. By the way, Kepler poisoned Tychos Brahe who had a different model, of the sun going around the earth, and that two planets are actually moons of the sun. The other planets do go around the sun, but the sun goes around the earth and the earth moves but only one mile per hour. And science as far as I know, doesn't say what the sun is doing in their model. Is it just sitting there, motionless? Because that would be funny as nothing is motionless, however that may not be what they are saying, but I've never heard anything about what the sun is doing out of the mouths of heliocentric model scientists.
I think you're onto something though with the CIA fueling confusion, however it's ok, we're allowed to disagree and it's good for us to. But we need to have more evidence than just saying scientists say so therefore, it is so. What makes the CIA ploy successful is when we degrade each other for having different opinions.
I just syndicated the article. I agree that the author could have broken it down better... but...
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William J. Casey, CIA Director (1981)
Such as the moon landings and globe earth… and space…??
"as you get higher, you can see further away"
You wrote this, and you didn't even catch your own presumption. Now, think about it - why would the above statement be true? There's no reason at all, geometrical or otherwise, that you should be able to see further away as you go higher on a flat earth. But make the earth a sphere and suddenly you can see exactly why the above statement holds true.
Flat earth major PSYOP for suckers
Lol! Use your fucking head! It's flat, everything you've been told is a lie. Ev-ry-thing-g-ah! The people who run this world are inbred, gay, child eating retards!
https://substack.com/@mtcali70/note/c-294506819?r=2yu13f
2 more things 1. Show me a real not cgi photo of Earth? 2. Prove the earth is spinning at 1,000 mph.
The model yours:
1. Earth is spinning 1,000 MPH
2. Going around the Sun @ 66,000 MPH
3. Yearly orbit of 500 million miles
4. Solar system goes around galaxy at 480,000 MPH
5. While galaxy goes around great attractor at 2.2 million miles per hour.
6. Great attractor is 100 quadrillion times bigger than our Sun.
7. All traveling 19.billion MPH in a year.
That’s the “scientific model”
I’m no astrophysicist but that’s a lot of moving parts.
Yeah flat earth is stupid … but emergency stops don’t really care about your model nor mine ….
Think we’re done with the experts of “science” after Covid, I am.
Flat earth or blue marble? It's really difficult to know the truth when the only people who know are those who constantly lie to us about everything.
FE has never interested me too much, but i do wonder why objects can be seen at extreme distancies when Earth's curvature should prevent this, how objects can remain attached to the earth when it is allegedly spinning so fast and also why NASA has lied to us concerning the moon landing.... those who 'are science' have muddied the term to the extent there is doubt about everything.
I’ve never met a flat earther that votes …..period. This idea that half the people who support Trump are flat earthers is a LIE.
Before commenting on a subject like flat earth, please do the appropriate research so you don’t sound like every other ignoramus who talks out of school. I’m not surprised and I’m starting to think Etienne is controlled opposition
We can agree to disagree agreeably!
No, it’s not about agreeing to disagree. NO NO NO…I bought your book and thumb drives and appreciate the work your have done but when you said that you can’t believe you are debating people who believe the earth is a disc floating in space, you exposed yourself as someone who speaks about subjects they know nothing about. It’s extremely disappointing because I can actually prove with a camera or binoculars that boats don’t sail away over a “horizon”. ITS LITERALLY THAT EASY TO DISPROVE the 8 1/2 inches per mile squared curvature that “mainstream science” has brainwashed you to believe. How can you prove the earth is perfectly spherical? It’s amazing to see people who distrust mainstream science…..but totally trust the pseudoscientific lies of astronomy. Neil DeGrasse Tyson says the earth is shaped like a pear….so which is it?? A pear or a ball?
It might be like the internet and have no shape.
Can you please do the world a solid and do the bare minimum by reading these 2 books before sounding off on the flat earth???
1. Parallax - The Earth is Not a Globe
2. Gerrard Hickson - Kings Dethroned
Jesuit schooling/training of any kind?
1. If the earth is rotating east to west (1000 mph at the equator) how is possible that there’s no difference flying east, west, north or south (except for a tailwind jet stream)?!!If you are flying into the rotation , (1000 mph + 500mph plane speed) it should take a fraction of the time than it would flying with the rotation. Imagine the insane wind a 1000 mph rotation would generate!! Also, if a plane is flying 500mph, you could only travel in the opposite direction of the rotation and never with it because the ground is moving faster than the plane!! Your destination would be drifting further and further away from you. 😂
2. If a helicopter hovers in mid air (not moving in any direction) for 2 hours , did the earth rotate 2000 miles beneath the helicopter?? Shouldn’t it have landed 2k miles away from its starting point because of the earth’s rotation? Guess what, THAT NEVER HAPPENS because the earth is stationary.
3. Ask a pilot (next time you take a long flight) if the airports and cities are moving and shifting beneath you (with the rotation) while the plane is in flight. Do we experience musical airports like musical chairs?? What if a runway is positioned north to south and perpendicular to your heading?? How can you land an airplane on a runway that is moving 1000 east to west??? Air travel would be very different if the earth was actually rotating and it’s incredibly silly to think otherwise.
WTF?
the Bible says the Earth is flat.
that should be all the proof required for any Yahweh-fearing Christian.
no it doesnt. Not in any detail.
Enjoy hell 🔥
we;; you are the one misrepresenting the bible tbh.. which is rather frowned upon.
Yahweh did not stutter when he wrote the Bible and created the world and made it flat. He warned us of demons like you with your science trying to disprove his Truth.
Actually, I think NASA is behind the Flat Earth psyop, qui bono? Though it certainly benefits many of the agencies, so probably some inter-agency psychological situation board with occult-oriented psychologists. It's brilliant how it traps minds.
I've wondered if it hasn't been a testing ground for techniques utilized in the C19 scamdemic. Having engaged with many of the FE'ers over the years, along with a geodetic surveyor mate, attempting to get them to cognize a wider range of data to assess their world view upon, I ended up looking into the psychology of cult programming. Neurologist Robert Burton's work on how people believe they are right even when they are obviously wrong is a fascinating path.
There may be no more hope for them than people waving Ukranian flags these days.
Michael Nehls book The Indoctrinated Brain is also a good read in discerning how these psyops can function.
I engaged with Darrell Fox and many others in that field back in the day. It was a shitshow.
My friend Jesse Kozlowski, a geodetic surveyor with over 40 years experience in measuring the curvature on large scale projects made a series of videos showing how the curvature works, and how the FEers do the 8" squared per mile wrong (it's one of the mind tricks that traps them) as it's for sighting line perpedicular to a plumb line at sighting location, readily seen as divergent from line of sight in theodolites. He came under heavy attack in the forums, he told me they were posting pictures of him from his younger days that he didn't even know existed, would have been scanned from old film prints, along with a wanted poster, etc.
Eric "Dubious" Dubay got his start with a $100,000 reward from the US Vaccine court, for not feeling well after a flu shot. He used that to move to Thailand, many more connecting details, but that should give you a major clue. How many parents with vaccine injured children have gotten paid out like that?
Won't belabor the issue, but I've done a deep dive on all aspects over the years, and there's no doubt this is a high level psychological operation.
I have a few mates who will believe it no matter what info is given them, but they are wise and don't discuss that with me.
dubai along w/ dave weiss both major shills and grifters, dubai also pushing the dangerous vegan agenda (note how sick and weak he looks)
I agree that FE benefits NASA . . . it serves to discredit anyone who points out problems and inconsistencies with the narrative surrounding the Apollo missions. Thus anyone questioning the Apollo missions is lumped in with flat earthers and easily dismissed.
Why is the argument always ball and flat? What if the answer is something entirely different? It's always duality with monos which is ironic being a twin but I guess that's why the pattern is so obvious to us. Left - Right, Man-Woman, Black-White, Mind-Body, Nature-Nurture, Birth-Death, Good-Evil, and the list can go on and on … Why can't you think in terms of polarity, your world might open up a lot more.