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Thomas Guitarman's avatar

They have been programmed into this belief for so long it will be hard to break the spell. Maybe seeing the disastrous and disgusting true intent of this GENOCIDE by Trump s and Kushner's own words , might wake up a few . While a supposed cease fire was happening Trump and US already selling NEW shipments of 2000 lb bombs. While claiming to find financial fraud and corruption in America , they just send it to Israel. Uncountable billions disappear in failed Ukraine war , no one prosecuted , all pardoned already . Just how much of this will you take Americans?

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Redeemed Dissident's avatar

I have appreciated and have learned much from you and other anarchists/voluntaryists and was pleased to see a (guest) post discussing spiritual matters, which are (IMO) a critical component for understanding and living free from tyranny (in whatever form(s) it may be manifested) and forming mutually beneficial relationships and meaningful communities based on or at least informed by sound principles and beliefs, even when there may not be 100% concurrence on the finer details of foundational truths to which fellow sojourners may subscribe.

And so I support the author’s contention that all of us can be better informed regarding differing end times perspectives found within believers in Jesus (as well as other belief systems), and especially as they may pertain to the chosen of God. While it’s certainly true that MOST of us are ignorant of history (much of it revised, omitted, changed/distorted or “restated” using contemporary perspectives/references [for example] versus those prevailing at the actual time of the events studied or from source materials applicable to that era or the events in view, etc). For example, in the Old & New Testament(s), “nation” refers to a people, or people group, a family/tribe kinship group descended from common ancestry -- an “ethnic group” not necessarily a place (especially given the dispersions and relocations of the ancient Israelite tribes). And “the nations” came to mean the non-Jewish nations – the Gentiles or even “goyim”. We (today) associate a nation with a country, a charter and a political system, with government structures and defined physical “boundaries” (which as we know are constructs and imaginary lines drawn to claim geographic dominance over an area of land, resources, etc.), which is vastly different and confusing to the uninitiated who equate the biblical with the modern usages.

And I certainly concur that the self-declared nation state calling itself Israel (versus biblical Israel-the descendants of Jacob/Israel, who comprised the 12 tribes that came from him) is an unavoidable elephant in the room that deserves to be viewed, when understood theologically using the bible as a basis for doing so, within context and using proper hermeneutics (which for premillennial dispensationalists is generally understood to be the plain, literal, obvious meaning as conveyed in the original writings – based on a verbal, plenary, infallible, unlimited inerrancy understanding of scripture). In other words, varying theological views tend to view the amount of “license” taken with scriptures (to fit their views) differently, whereas the much maligned and dismissively broad brush stroked away dispensational view is swept away because of disputes over the obvious differences throughout the 66 canonized books between those of biblical Jewish descent and those of non-Jewish descent “(Gentiles”) and their roles and means of relating to God, their obtaining salvation from Him and their relationship to one another and the future revealed in scripture (Old & New Testament) concerning them (and the strict adherence to literal plain and obvious translation and comprehension of what is being conveyed). Dispensationalists see the “new man” in Christ that is the mystery revealed via Paul’s gospel – the church (mistranslated from ecclesia, the assembly of called out ones) comprised of men and women from all nations (people groups not countries) as was promised to Abraham (the Father of ‘faith” which is the operative force to gain access to the LORD – when it apprehends the correct catalyst for its realization – which is Jesus Christ), and simultaneously, the Jews, who will eventually (during the “end times” be a targeted for a “last chance” by God to recognize & embrace Jesus as Messiah & Savior as was attempted in His first advent when He made a legitimate offer of the Kingdom to them in fulfillment of prophetic scriptures, which they en masse rejected – postponing the kingdom) .

Related to this, then is - who are the biblical Jews about which scriptures have been clearly written? Is it those who have “converted” to one of several cult-like systems claiming roots in Judaism? Is it those who follow the Babylonian Talmud (a compilation of Rabbinical commentary that is not congruent in many important areas with the Torah/Pentateuch, etc.)? Is it those who have no direct Jacobian lineage (for example, the much disputed but still valid Zhazarians [ancient Turkish people in Russia, Ukraine, etc.] or Ashkenazi Jews versus the Sephardic Jews)? If lineage/ancestry is truly part of the biblical definition and understanding, then a distinct ethnic group of people (who were still identifiable/recognizable at the time the New Testament was written and addressed by Paul Peter, James, etc.) are who is in view. It is interesting to note that an estimated 80% or more of contemporary peoples calling themselves Jews are white-skinned European or other people groups in origin, not like the Semite groups of brown-skinned peoples (like for instance, the Palestinians!).

Many misrepresentations are made about dispensationalists and their presumed beliefs and critics have attempted to discredit their views for as long as these have been around (one of the criticisms is that it is not historically viable and is more recent, and the proffered primary people through who it came to be systematized are all non-theologically adept rogues, scoundrels and rebels, etc., when in fact the earliest disciples lived in the anticipation of Jesus return). Again, while this can be said of every theological “bent” (that is multiple arguments about the validity of [for example] “spiritualizing,” allegorizing, substituting symbology where none is apparent, or imposing meanings not obvious, plain, literal or consistent with the context and the historic usage and meaning, etc). Many have scoffed at the “wooden literalness” of dispensational bible interpretation since again, doing so produces certain inevitable and obvious conclusions which do not fit with other pre-determined theological notions.

As to the widespread misapprehensions about the modern nation state calling itself Israel and whether it equates to biblical Israel (the true Jews descended from Jacob): MANY of us who claim a premillennial, dispensational hermeneutic do NOT concur with what appears to be a much more prominent, vocal and influential group who have perpetuated (as I was taught when younger, before my own quest for biblical truth in light of current events and developments led me to evaluate everything I’d been taught) the oft-repeated, criticized and maligned (and leveraged heavily in the political realm) notion that the modern manifestation of a country that calls itself Israel (regardless of the occupants true heritage and ancestry) grew out of a (largely European, and especially British) Zionist movement (Zionists do NOT equal Jews – Zionists are actually anti-Jew in nature, even if outwardly they may seem not to be so) is somehow the biblical people Israel to whom promises (conditioned ones, with many specific activities to precede and follow the events around their regathering and eventual offer of the kingdom during a time of worldwide calamity)…which we REJECT. We do not approve of or endorse the ethnic cleansing in process in Palestine that is a continuation of a 75+ year colonization of an occupier group, enabled and urged on by the British empire and other Euiopean nations who wished to rid themselves of a specific group’s influence and participation in their societies and “approved by the vile and anti-human United Nations (League of Nations).

In fact, it is apparent to us that a distinction as referenced previously is essential and what is lacking for our contention, given the “label” placed on we who interpret and understand scripture following the dispensational/premillennial hermeneutic, to mean that 1) only God knows who His chosen people (the true biblical Jews) are today who descended from ancient times 2) that even Paul stated that God has not cast off his people the Jews and 3) the imposters, pretenders and usurpers who formed a country and passed it off as Israel have another agenda altogether based on their true beliefs and loyalties – and these may have the form of honoring and following the “presumed” mandates of the God of the bible but in reality are constructs of Satanic counterfeit and the illusion of biblically-based events staged intentionally to try to manipulate and steal the heritage that God has foretold as part of a larger globalist/Zionist plan to seize Israel as the future headquarters for their antichrist-inspired and directed false kingdom – the one that will use the attempted replication of scripturally defined (or redefined) events in the external realm to try to create a fallen replica of what God has ordained and is yet to come so that it is somehow dominant in the (fallen, dark) counter spiritual realm – an imagined and long-sought after goal of Satan himself – to rule from his throne over God’s creation by corrupting and changing it and by misleading and weakening and even drawing away those who belong to Christ (if that were truly possible with REAL believers).

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